What then, my dearest Glaucon, we should be asking ourselves, is not if we should climb, but what just virtues does climbing provide us? Does this not seem appropriate?
It certainly does.
It stands to reason then, before diving into the just or unjust virtues, that a definition of climbing seem a likely place to start.
Certainly.
Then you shall have it my dear Glaucon. It is safe to say, that when one climbs, they are moving upward, rising, using their hands and feet, against some object, is it not?
It is safe to say so, but why against an object Socrates? Why make this point?
When one jumps, they are rising upwards, are they not Glaucon?
Of course.
When a bird takes flight from the ground, it rises upwards?
It certainly does.
Need I continue my dearest Glaucon?
We may indeed move on.
The picture of one climbing is beginning to form, but it is not yet complete. While one uses their hands and feet to move upwards, does one not ascend a staircase with each step, while simultaneously grasping a hand rail?
They do!
Well then, we must now direct our attention to that of the object, and maybe our definition as a whole. I would propose going forward, rather than tackling the question of "what just virtues does climbing provide us", we must tackle a more direct question.
And what question is that?
My dearest Glaucon, that question is unavoidably: "what just virtues does rock climbing provide us?"
Then it shall be so.
It certainly does.
It stands to reason then, before diving into the just or unjust virtues, that a definition of climbing seem a likely place to start.
Certainly.
Then you shall have it my dear Glaucon. It is safe to say, that when one climbs, they are moving upward, rising, using their hands and feet, against some object, is it not?
It is safe to say so, but why against an object Socrates? Why make this point?
When one jumps, they are rising upwards, are they not Glaucon?
Of course.
When a bird takes flight from the ground, it rises upwards?
It certainly does.
Need I continue my dearest Glaucon?
We may indeed move on.
The picture of one climbing is beginning to form, but it is not yet complete. While one uses their hands and feet to move upwards, does one not ascend a staircase with each step, while simultaneously grasping a hand rail?
They do!
Well then, we must now direct our attention to that of the object, and maybe our definition as a whole. I would propose going forward, rather than tackling the question of "what just virtues does climbing provide us", we must tackle a more direct question.
And what question is that?
My dearest Glaucon, that question is unavoidably: "what just virtues does rock climbing provide us?"
Then it shall be so.
Need we define a rock to continue?
I should think not.
Then we shall continue.
Before continuing Socrates, please recall the Harness of Honnold. When put on, man can ascend the most difficult of routes with all but ease. Upon reaching the summit all that man could want is provided for him. Fame, fortune, a girlfriend, and a condo in Las Vegas. When given the opportunity, who would not wield the harness to achieve similar results?
A fantastic inquiry indeed my dear Glaucon, and one I'm glad you posed. What say you to the man who consumes food until full, and then no further?
Not much.
Not much indeed. But what of the man who eats much past full, and while others starve around him?
Him I would call a glutton.
Indeed. And a gluttonous one is surely unjust?
Surely.
And what comes of the man after consumption past full?
Sickness.
Of no doubt sickness it is. Now you see Glaucon, it is not the fame, the fortune, the girlfriend, or the condo that is the desirable outcome, as more can only progress towards sickness, but it is that of the rock climb, in and of itself.
So it must be.
I should think not.
Then we shall continue.
Before continuing Socrates, please recall the Harness of Honnold. When put on, man can ascend the most difficult of routes with all but ease. Upon reaching the summit all that man could want is provided for him. Fame, fortune, a girlfriend, and a condo in Las Vegas. When given the opportunity, who would not wield the harness to achieve similar results?
A fantastic inquiry indeed my dear Glaucon, and one I'm glad you posed. What say you to the man who consumes food until full, and then no further?
Not much.
Not much indeed. But what of the man who eats much past full, and while others starve around him?
Him I would call a glutton.
Indeed. And a gluttonous one is surely unjust?
Surely.
And what comes of the man after consumption past full?
Sickness.
Of no doubt sickness it is. Now you see Glaucon, it is not the fame, the fortune, the girlfriend, or the condo that is the desirable outcome, as more can only progress towards sickness, but it is that of the rock climb, in and of itself.
So it must be.
Pressing forward, we can say a good climber is one who uses his hands and feet well to ascend the rock, can we not?
We certainly can.
We could also continue that a bad climber could proceed in that of a myriad of ways, but we continue with that of two directions. The first, using their hands and feet unwell, and thus not ascending the rock. The second using more than one's hands and feet to ascend the rock, which is surely unjust as well is it not?
It is, but Socrates, what of the rope? Is it not being used to ascend the rock?
My dearest Glaucon, surely we can be clear the rope's presence is merely that of safety, securing the climber in the event their hands and feet are unjust for the task.
And the harness?
Surely the same my dear Glaucon.
And what of the shoes? And the chalk?
An excellent point you bring to the table. If a man with impaired vision sits down to read, he will certainly struggle to do so.
Certainly.
But if given a pair of spectacles, he could better perform the task at hand, could he not?
He could.
And there is nothing unjust in still reading and digesting the material of the day, now that his impairment has been mitigated is there?
There is not.
And if a man were to dig a trough for his artichoke thistles, using his hands or a hoe wouldn't preclude him from the work still to be done, is that the case?
It is.
And in the same vain my dear Glaucon, lacing up your Mythos and sampling your hands with chalk are more akin glasses to a reader then one sprouting wings and flying to the summit.
The philosopher king Royal Robbins would be most pleased with this progression Socrates.
Most pleased indeed.
We certainly can.
We could also continue that a bad climber could proceed in that of a myriad of ways, but we continue with that of two directions. The first, using their hands and feet unwell, and thus not ascending the rock. The second using more than one's hands and feet to ascend the rock, which is surely unjust as well is it not?
It is, but Socrates, what of the rope? Is it not being used to ascend the rock?
My dearest Glaucon, surely we can be clear the rope's presence is merely that of safety, securing the climber in the event their hands and feet are unjust for the task.
And the harness?
Surely the same my dear Glaucon.
And what of the shoes? And the chalk?
An excellent point you bring to the table. If a man with impaired vision sits down to read, he will certainly struggle to do so.
Certainly.
But if given a pair of spectacles, he could better perform the task at hand, could he not?
He could.
And there is nothing unjust in still reading and digesting the material of the day, now that his impairment has been mitigated is there?
There is not.
And if a man were to dig a trough for his artichoke thistles, using his hands or a hoe wouldn't preclude him from the work still to be done, is that the case?
It is.
And in the same vain my dear Glaucon, lacing up your Mythos and sampling your hands with chalk are more akin glasses to a reader then one sprouting wings and flying to the summit.
The philosopher king Royal Robbins would be most pleased with this progression Socrates.
Most pleased indeed.
To conclude, it would be fair to say, that the just rock climber ascends rock faces well, with the use of his hands and feet, without attachment for "the good things in life" such as fame, fortune, or women, but for the rock climbing, in and of itself.
I could not have said it better myself Socrates.
My dearest Glaucon, of that I am quite certain.
I could not have said it better myself Socrates.
My dearest Glaucon, of that I am quite certain.